GasBuddy News Article

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Braking Bad

NY Times -- ..Based on my experience in the 1980s helping investigate unintended acceleration in the Audi 5000, I suspect that smart pedals cannot solve the problem. The trouble, unbelievable as it may seem, is that sudden acceleration is very often caused by drivers who press the gas pedal when they intend to press the brake.

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Submitted Mar 11, 2010 By: Cakes77

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kelsielee Champion Author Atlanta Posts:3,389 Points:665,800 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:07:16 AM Ignore kelsielee Report Abuse The more media coverage this receives, the more likely that crashes truly caused by driver error will get "blamed" on sudden acceleration. So much coverage clouds the issues (as legitimate problems get mixed up with driver error problems, etc.) and gives car companies an easier way to blame others.
hank1326 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:4,101 Points:772,025 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:54:56 PM Ignore hank1326 Report Abuse Ditto to highdesertman. Stop blaming the drivers. It is the automakers' responsibility to produce safe and reliable vehicles.
highdesertman All-Star Author Albuquerque Posts:621 Points:903,200 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 2:29:59 PM Ignore highdesertman Report Abuse Yes, this may be the case with some elderly drivers, but how do you explain the 45-year-old CHP officer who was killed in the Lexus crash in Santee, California? I doubt that he lacked the skills, knowledge or physical ability to correct the situation if he possibly could have. (And that includes fixing the so-called floormat problem that Toyota blamed the incident on.)
mmene Champion Author Houston Posts:2,571 Points:586,365 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 1:21:14 PM Ignore mmene Report Abuse So blame the driver now?
Kimmunicate All-Star Author San Francisco Posts:695 Points:158,460 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 10:39:34 AM Ignore Kimmunicate Report Abuse If someone intended to step on their brake and noticed they were accelerating instead, wouldn't they let go of that pedal and step on the other one? (God forbid they don't know which pedal is which). Why the California man did not want to even TRY to put his car into neutral is beyond me.
ewoodwardjohnso Champion Author Richmond Posts:2,093 Points:530,975 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:22:13 AM Ignore ewoodwardjohnso Report Abuse @Walkit1. No. Don't turn the key off. They also turns off your power steering. As they have repeated on the national news reports: shift your car into neutral. DON'T turn the engine off. Press the brakes. Steer off the highway.
Robert44 Champion Author Columbus Posts:2,835 Points:752,825 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:08:31 AM Ignore Robert44 Report Abuse Could be?
napermike79 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,013 Points:933,590 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:06:30 AM Ignore napermike79 Report Abuse Put the gas pedal on the steering wheel similar to a shifter paddle. With only one pedal at their feet, morons cant't confuse which pedal is stop or go. It will also force people to keep their hands on the wheel instead of wide variety of things people are doing with them.
nigelb Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,494 Points:527,450 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:05:31 AM Ignore nigelb Report Abuse I agree wint indyjim - there is no way the car going 90 on the California freeway while the driver pressed the brakes was operator error.
walkit1 Champion Author Memphis Posts:1,254 Points:720,500 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:04:30 AM Ignore walkit1 Report Abuse Turn your key to the off position!
POPSAZ All-Star Author Arizona Posts:650 Points:278,940 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:02:29 AM Ignore POPSAZ Report Abuse Smart cars? Smart People? Let the attoneys at them, and all will be right, and nobody can drive without a new Law. Smart?
dks2000 Sophomore Author Houston Posts:231 Points:168,815 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:02:27 AM Ignore dks2000 Report Abuse Obviously this does not explain the situation where the man drove 30 miles at 90 mph. I'm glad I have a manual transmission vehicle. I could just push in the clutch & downshift, like they taught us back in Driver's Ed if your brakes fail. Or just put in neutral and coast to a stop.
SeerLV Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:3,492 Points:716,690 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:01:12 AM Ignore SeerLV Report Abuse Scary stuff. Hope none of them end up behind me!
915Chief Champion Author San Diego Posts:3,645 Points:715,050 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:00:51 AM Ignore 915Chief Report Abuse so when you take your foot off of the accelerator and you're still speeding up, what then? Turn your NYT into Charmin while you're busy excreting bricks???
esorsd Champion Author St. Louis Posts:1,087 Points:692,050 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 9:00:41 AM Ignore esorsd Report Abuse a good article.
DeepInOhio Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,939 Points:629,435 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:59:41 AM Ignore DeepInOhio Report Abuse I agree with Doubleeez!
dks2000 Sophomore Author Houston Posts:231 Points:168,815 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:59:25 AM Ignore dks2000 Report Abuse If this is the case, then maybe it's happened more with Toyota, because there are a lot of them on the road? Or maybe it's the positioning of the brake and gas pedal, that makes it easy to stomp on the wrong one?
indyjim Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:4,758 Points:1,348,695 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:58:34 AM Ignore indyjim Report Abuse The article explains sudden acceleration upon start up, but not when driving on the interstate and the brakes are smoking being applied while the acceleration is taking place. Something is going on other than "operator error".
Doubleeez Champion Author Connecticut Posts:2,747 Points:545,740 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:57:26 AM Ignore Doubleeez Report Abuse Anyone who uses the gas pedal instead of the brake should be required to use a tricycle for transportation.
RichardoB Champion Author Fayetteville Posts:2,971 Points:1,067,185 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:55:40 AM Ignore RichardoB Report Abuse After driving cars with automatic transmissions for quite a few years, when I bought a new car November 28, 2008, I bought one with a 5-speed manual transmission. And it has a key I have to insert in the ignition to start the car. I've never had a problem with unintended acceleration but, if I did, I could quickly disengage the engine.
BlazerBabe2001 Rookie Author Ontario Posts:3 Points:4,995 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:55:36 AM Ignore BlazerBabe2001 Report Abuse There have been 2 accidents in the last year that I know of where the people pressed the accerlator not the brake.
bpoppe1 Sophomore Author Houston Posts:229 Points:319,255 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:55:34 AM Ignore bpoppe1 Report Abuse You know, I've wondered for years why Audis had the brake indicator light next to the shift lever. Nice to know where that actually came from. Thanks for a good article.
DAK1960 Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,917 Points:402,185 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:54:43 AM Ignore DAK1960 Report Abuse they guy driving the prius a few days ago who needed the police was faking it. They kept telling him to put the car in neutral and he didn't do it. this clown is looking for a payoff
cookies3 All-Star Author London Posts:899 Points:1,138,590 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:53:48 AM Ignore cookies3 Report Abuse THAT often?
suzyq2007 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,809 Points:779,075 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:52:58 AM Ignore suzyq2007 Report Abuse I agree that a lot of the problems are the drivers not the cars
Tatalah Champion Author Riverside Posts:5,744 Points:1,502,410 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:52:41 AM Ignore Tatalah Report Abuse This article is spot on!!
my2002m Champion Author Tulsa Posts:1,332 Points:701,415 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:51:36 AM Ignore my2002m Report Abuse Early signs of alzheimer's. So they should sue their doctor for failing to detect their medical condition. Driver's never make mistakes so someone else has to pay.
cdanielwyke Champion Author Greensboro Posts:1,550 Points:409,485 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:50:52 AM Ignore cdanielwyke Report Abuse Hey it's happened plenty of times before. Remember the old man a few years ago who killed a few people at a market because he thought he was braking but he was actually accelerating? One problem I have is that accelerators are being controlled electronically in modern vehicles. Electronic control is a good thing when it comes to fuel mixture, combustion control, emissions control, but leave the braking, accelerating, and steering to good old fasion mechanical controls. Too many things can fail in electronic control.
sivart Champion Author Arkansas Posts:11,922 Points:2,104,055 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:50:46 AM Ignore sivart Report Abuse The smaller the car the less foot room they have for the pedals and are placed close together...big feet...wrong pedal!
madison8359 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,880 Points:623,135 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:50:19 AM Ignore madison8359 Report Abuse Yes, it is possible that someone could mistake the gas for the brake. And yes, I am sure it has happened on occasion. But to imply that in Toyota's case, where deaths have occurred, evidence clearly points to brakes being fried from heat and several drivers being rather experienced, i.e. policeman, etc, it seem to me that this article takes something that has a small statistical chance and implies that this is a major part of the problem. Most of these incidents happen after start up and while already on the road, which somewhat reduces his theory to less than likely. Maybe if Toyota shared more information with authorities this could be narrowed but Toyota seems to not want to be helpful. They say there is only ONE computer in the U.S. that can check their black box. We know that Toyota made a conscious decision to view safety as something that cost too much and was, therefore, expendable. [Edited by: madison8359 at 3/11/2010 10:52:47 AM EST]
wwcj Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,530 Points:371,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:49:41 AM Ignore wwcj Report Abuse When you learn to drive with a cluch, you learn to use your right foot for either the gas or the brake. But most people today do not know what a clutch is let alone drive with one foot. Time will tell, we need a kill switch or a dead man switch installed in our cars.
walkit1 Champion Author Memphis Posts:1,254 Points:720,500 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:49:19 AM Ignore walkit1 Report Abuse It is a mess and some folks will take advantage and fake it!
bozo All-Star Author Boston Posts:944 Points:1,332,285 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:48:36 AM Ignore bozo Report Abuse beats me.
Lizzylou Champion Author Stockton Posts:4,530 Points:1,503,725 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:48:27 AM Ignore Lizzylou Report Abuse If you don't know the difference between your gas pedal and your brakes you should not be driving!!!
BEngr Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,706 Points:613,135 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:47:15 AM Ignore BEngr Report Abuse While I can understand that this is possible, I don't think this is the case.
papou Champion Author Tampa Posts:5,683 Points:937,185 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:46:56 AM Ignore papou Report Abuse This person must be paid by the car manufactuers.
Ready Eddie All-Star Author Twin Cities Posts:769 Points:372,415 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:45:20 AM Ignore Ready Eddie Report Abuse With small pedals and some of the shoes people wear today it is easy to see this happening. How about instead of a smart pedal we install a brain in the drivers. Get the stupid off the road and you well solve many issues in one sweep move.
justinoles All-Star Author Orlando Posts:871 Points:180,055 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:43:05 AM Ignore justinoles Report Abuse This is an issue, especially in FL with an aging population.
slgas Champion Author Houston Posts:1,047 Points:586,640 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:41:41 AM Ignore slgas Report Abuse This could explain one type of unintended acceleration. With both pedals side by side, about an inch apart, and at roughly the height, it is easy to have your foot either slip off the brake onto the accelerator, or to actually depress both pedals at the same time, which I have done already, and gives you a little bit of each in response. The override system that Toyota says they are going to install on Avalons might solve the case where both petals are depressed simultaneously.
GryphonX Champion Author Nevada Posts:2,871 Points:729,730 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:41:09 AM Ignore GryphonX Report Abuse I think this may be part of the problem, but only part ...
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:18,312 Points:1,368,110 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:40:04 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse In this case, sudden acceleration is ‘NOT’ very often caused by drivers who press the gas pedal when they intend to press the brake. There have been too many drivers telling other people and police witlessness of drivers standing on their brakes and NOT stopping in a Toyota. The policeman who was in front of the recent case saw what the driver was doing and could ‘smell’ the brakes when the vehicle was stopped. Sometimes a pedal slip does happen but not in this case. Let’s get the right information RICHARD A. SCHMIDT and NOT your opinion.
Manolo1 Champion Author Miami Posts:4,370 Points:764,820 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:40:00 AM Ignore Manolo1 Report Abuse 1- the floormat recall: Toyota error. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Toyota floormats... the problem is owners using aftermarket floormats and /or adding floormats to existing ones ... some even put house carpets there, or towels!!! 2- The accelerator pedal? more sensationalism... it all started with an 2005 Avalon with 108K miles on it that could demonstrate having a sticky pedal... only 20 cases reported to the accelerator manufacturer, none resulting in an accident... out of more than 3 million cars! 3- The runaway Prius in California? another hoax!!! The 2008 Prius already had the brake override system. What that imbecile was explaining is just a bunch of crap!
Plebe2001 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,271 Points:409,925 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:37:20 AM Ignore Plebe2001 Report Abuse What a bad article trying to shift the blame to the drivers. Just BS. Yes of course in history sometimes drivers do make have their foot slip from brake to gas, but that doesn't usually continue for more then a second or two. The driver quickly recovers and stops the car. But these problems have occurred far m,ore that accidental foot slippage and lasted far more than a second or two. And a number of these unintended acceleration problems have been with trained experienced drivers.
jb107 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,699 Points:1,647,015 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:37:14 AM Ignore jb107 Report Abuse This could be the case for around 100 feet but not for miles with both feet on the brake.
gasokie All-Star Author Oklahoma Posts:546 Points:577,790 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:35:51 AM Ignore gasokie Report Abuse I wonder if anyone ever heard of a 'KILL' switch on the dash. It could be a big button...similar to the emergency flashers...easy to see and hit. A kill button like on a tractor-mower or any other I.C.E. would "kill" the engine. A good place to start if you can't get your runaway jap car to stop.
Manolo1 Champion Author Miami Posts:4,370 Points:764,820 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:35:22 AM Ignore Manolo1 Report Abuse and even more bad owners... poor or no maintenance, etc...
bluebird1 Champion Author Toronto Posts:10,726 Points:2,146,295 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:34:47 AM Ignore bluebird1 Report Abuse Here is a doc. applying what he found in the 80's to current problems. He is correct that many incidents are likely simple driver error, as in the 80's but many are not. Plus, cars have black boxes now (EDR's) that can be read to determine factors around time of the crash (such as brakes applied, G'forces, accel./deceler. etc) should Toyota decide to use it or make it available (Toyota has a bad rap on secrecy on this). These are not because of startup, most is not at beginning of trip or just engaging drive + most cars are protected from this these days. Hence, situation is different from Audi's. I am also not a fan for tech. for tech. sake & wonder what advantage the electric throttle provides...can't be weight, compactness, feel, power-saving, ease of use, or cost.
Manolo1 Champion Author Miami Posts:4,370 Points:764,820 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:34:27 AM Ignore Manolo1 Report Abuse too many bad drivers...
jwalkerh Champion Author Louisiana Posts:2,102 Points:563,275 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:33:52 AM Ignore jwalkerh Report Abuse I don't know about this, too many cases of unintended acceleration.
BlueVanGroup Champion Author Colorado Posts:2,265 Points:576,410 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:33:28 AM Ignore BlueVanGroup Report Abuse "The only thing they had in common was an automatic transmission." I still prefer a manual transmission. (And I'm happy to crank my own windows, and ...)